Curse

Sainte · Aug 28, 2005, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunman222

now think of how to stop the signet smiting teams.

Easy, they recharge slow, meaning they spike very slowly. If you cant kill a person in 1 spike, you need to wait a long time. Smite use Balth + Zeal, and Sig for high damages =/

Ensign · Aug 28, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

Choking gas, incendiary arrows, distracting shot, savage shot and punishing shot...dead smiter.

Yay, you can list off a bunch of Ranger interrupts! I can guess what your favorite class is! Unfortunately, none of the skills that you've listed are particularly good answers to smiting builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

A group of monks or monk secondaries that use SMITING PRAYERS to deal damage upon the enemy or reflect damage back to the enemy.

Which would explain why you think that. Have you ever actually played in tombs?

Smiting is an El/Mo build that uses Draw Conditions / Reversal of Fortune to power Zealot's Fire, and uses Ether Renewal to run with effectively infinite energy. Toss in some Balthazar's Auras and Judge's Insights and you have the biggest damage machine in the game.

It's vulnerable to a few specific kinds of hate (Rend Enchantments and spammed Diversion in particular) but is otherwise remarkably robust, and the damage it dishes out just rolls over unprepared teams.

Peace,
-CxE

Brother Andicus · Aug 28, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Sainte, it will change. Once the slightly dimmer players cotton on to the counters, smite will become ineffective, and there will be a new flavour of the month.

Personally, I would like to have 2 people put spiteful spirit on the E/mo key mashers, and watch them blow up their entire party.

Amused Observer · Aug 28, 2005, 03:43 AM // 03:43

I played a bit yesterday at tombs, and we ran into 1 smite group, 1 air spiker team, and the rest knockdown groups. Playing as a Mes, I had a difficult time joining groups. :/

Ensign · Aug 28, 2005, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

Personally, I would like to have 2 people put spiteful spirit on the E/mo key mashers, and watch them blow up their entire party.

1) Multiple copies of Spiteful Spirit on the same target do not stack.
2) The AoE on Spiteful Spirit really isn't that impressive. It really only works on Warriors who bunch up on the same target.
3) Smiters heal themselves for a sizable percentage of what Spiteful Spirit will deal with each cast.
4) No one carries Hex Removal, right?
5) You're running Spiteful Spirit in Tombs.

Peace,
-CxE

Warskull · Aug 28, 2005, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Smite is popular for a couple of reasons. Builds can be designed to beat it, however it means you have to develop your own build. From my expeience most players aren't capable of developing a build and/or understanding the interaction between the players of the group. The smite build is a predesigned group that is easy to do and effective. It can be countered, however the many of the teams running smite win much more than they would have without it. Additionally everyone is happy in the smite build. Everyone around the warriors dies so they feel big and tough. Tons of yellow numbers pop up on the e/mo screen so they feel great for doing a lot of damage. They monks feel good because they see how much they are healing people.

Smiting is quite simply the PvP version of PvEs Tanks, nukers, and healers. Easy to do, everyone knows their role and feels good because they are recognized for what they are doing, and it works (not necessarily the best way to do things, but it works good enough.)

If you look at the history of the common tombs PvP builds they all have a few things in common.

#1) Easy to do
#2) Each player has well defined roles
#3) The interaction between players is fairly built in so even the most retarded person can do it.
#4) They are effective (not necessarily the best build, but it works even in the hands of idiots)

Theos · Aug 28, 2005, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

1) Multiple copies of Spiteful Spirit on the same target do not stack.
2) The AoE on Spiteful Spirit really isn't that impressive. It really only works on Warriors who bunch up on the same target.
3) Smiters heal themselves for a sizable percentage of what Spiteful Spirit will deal with each cast.
4) No one carries Hex Removal, right?
5) You're running Spiteful Spirit in Tombs.

Peace,
-CxE

He was speaking of multiple tickle me elmos, not just one. Or so I gather from his use of the letter S.
In recent playing I have discovered that NR is a slight (but not very effective) counter to Smite. The addition on casting time is nice and all but it seems that it just not cutting it. Diversion has worked great and can totally obliterate a players 7-8 skills quickly. I may want to try Soul Leech on such a build, Spiteful Spirit is too weak but perhaps Leech may cut it. Other real problem is there isn't much in the way of semi-large removal being used, PUGs totally neglect it. All necro chilblains with plague sig/sending/touch... must try this out ><.

Red Sonya · Aug 28, 2005, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Well at least it's not spirit spammers so I wouldn't go complaining about something you say you can beat so easily. Seems to me one would be happy with the socalled easy faction. I'll take a smiting team any day vs that silly spirit spamming that used to go on.

twicky_kid · Aug 28, 2005, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleet

As i said. Mesmer is the key but if its so simple why the hell there are so many smiters teams ? Oo

because of the of the number of 105 smiters there were built for farming now viable for pvp where as before they would be killed instanly. yet they are very easy to kill. you are just seeing an imbalance of classes.

no nerf to stop smiting like NR. NR shut down mes to just be dead weight which made a shortage of mes players. not to mention mes is the hardest class to play and takes some one with real skills to use it effectivly.

you will see this balance out in the next few weeks more peole will make meses to stop the uprising of monks, but i do foresee balth aura running wild because NR was suppressing it where as not there is nothing to stop it.

btw, life bond builds are much more effective than smite builds anyday. i was doing 10-15 flawless victorys in a row in random pvp with just 1 monk using life bond.

Freyas · Aug 28, 2005, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Smites are running rampant because among most teams, enchantment removal is pretty much nonexistant. People are used to not having anything in the way of enchantments or need for enchantment removal due to the previous prevalence of Nature's Renewal and it's "remove all enchantments" effect. Some well-placed enchantment removals will destroy a smiting-based build. A good mesmer can do the same as well- Kill renewal or zealot's fire, and you've eliminated a significant portion of the other teams damage. Add in some additional anti-caster stuff, and you should have no problems. If all else fails, spread out and cripple the enemy wars- keep away from them and Balths aura/zealot's fire is wasted- it's all PBAoE.

Quebec Osti · Aug 28, 2005, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Smiters are so easily countered, I cant believe many ppl think its overpowered. Sure the damage is big, sure it has infinite mana with zealot/aura/boon/ether when you let them do what they want.

BUT:

Lingering curse, shatter enchant, diversion, rend enchant, drain enchant, ward of foes, strip enchant, healig seed, shielding hands, life barrier, chillbains, backfire(not the best), runing away, separating so smite hit just 1....and more.. are all counters. Not much to complain about if you ask me.

Its just an easy to run build that everyone is using atm... ppl will get smart... start bringing counters... and smiting is gonna suck.

ElderAtronach · Aug 28, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

First, crippling of their warriors won't do much as the E/Mos will just draw conditions off them, while doing damage with zealots, and healing themselves in the process. Second, spot removals recharge slower than Balths (which is 15 seconds), and Balth's gets covered up by other spammables anyway. Between Rend and drain/shatter/inspired you need to pick and choose what enchants get stripped off who, and sometimes you can strip a cover enchant if using a spot removal. Teams with multiple E/Mos fueling multiple W/* with multiple monks to back everyone else up is very hard to stop. You can't stack Balths on a single target, but you can spread the pain on each friendly warrior.

Third, you can regularly get hit with 80-120 damage with a Rend, which hurts quite a bit. Fourth, Lingering Curse costs 25 mana, so good luck getting that off regularly and/or on time. Maybe if you had an N/E using glyph of lesser energy. It gets even harder when their warriors are playing e-denial with Fear Me.

Sammiel · Aug 28, 2005, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

First, crippling of their warriors won't do much as the E/Mos will just draw conditions off them, while doing damage with zealots, and healing themselves in the process. Second, spot removals recharge slower than Balths (which is 15 seconds), and Balth's gets covered up by other spammables anyway. Between Rend and drain/shatter/inspired you need to pick and choose what enchants get stripped off who, and sometimes you can strip a cover enchant if using a spot removal. Teams with multiple E/Mos fueling multiple W/* with multiple monks to back everyone else up is very hard to stop. You can't stack Balths on a single target, but you can spread the pain on each friendly warrior.

Third, you can regularly get hit with 80-120 damage with a Rend, which hurts quite a bit. Fourth, Lingering Curse costs 25 mana, so good luck getting that off regularly and/or on time. Maybe if you had an N/E using glyph of lesser energy. It gets even harder when their warriors are playing e-denial with Fear Me.

Using a N/Me or Me/N with Lingering and drain enchantments usually helps mana management. With drain enchantments you can suck off the random extra enchants the team is running and use them to fuel Lingering. Sure it still sucks that Lingering costs a buttload, but that is how my current build tries to mitigate it.

Morganas · Aug 28, 2005, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Drain enchant won't fuel crap. It's got a crazy long cooldown, and a 10 energy cost.

Quebec Osti · Aug 28, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

First, crippling of their warriors won't do much as the E/Mos will just draw conditions off them, while doing damage with zealots, and healing themselves in the process. Second, spot removals recharge slower than Balths (which is 15 seconds), and Balth's gets covered up by other spammables anyway. Between Rend and drain/shatter/inspired you need to pick and choose what enchants get stripped off who, and sometimes you can strip a cover enchant if using a spot removal. Teams with multiple E/Mos fueling multiple W/* with multiple monks to back everyone else up is very hard to stop. You can't stack Balths on a single target, but you can spread the pain on each friendly warrior.

Third, you can regularly get hit with 80-120 damage with a Rend, which hurts quite a bit. Fourth, Lingering Curse costs 25 mana, so good luck getting that off regularly and/or on time. Maybe if you had an N/E using glyph of lesser energy. It gets even harder when their warriors are playing e-denial with Fear Me.

Well, ward vs foes works awesome vs smiting groups, Iron mist on warriors work too. About the enchant stripers, off course they cost more mana and are longer to cast/recast then enchants, but if you watch the smiter closely and strip is ether renewal right after he use it everytime, he wont do much. Signet of humility/mantra inscription does rly well also. A smiter without ether renewal doesnt do much damage with baltha alone. There is a also diversion wich does great vs smiter for obvious reasons.

Sainte · Aug 28, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

With 3 Balth Going off at the same time, and a Signet spike thrown in, chances are you will drop extremely fast.

If you fall to like 60% HP, a signet spike will wipe out almost your whole party. Smites are extemely powerful, and due to the fact that Enchant removal is indeed non-existant, or slow and horrible vs such fast casting skills, Smite rules supreme.

I rarely see people playing anything other than smite because anyone cna do it. Even morons can click 2 buttons.

There are no minor AoE Disenchants.. meaning 1 by 1 is hard, since you also need to strip enchants to kill people.

Dead Panda · Aug 28, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

If you ask me, I'd just wait til a body drops on the floor and cast Well of Profane. Then order your team to stand -inside- it.

Kampfkeks · Aug 28, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

LOL
This thread is just drop dead funny

Ever read the FOTM letters? Flavor of the month. And this is what we have here. It's just one of those lousy trends that do happen to occur every so often. Remember how everyone whined Aeromancers were overpowered? They weren't. A single spell every semi decent monk should carry anyways could stop it. Weeee.

Now here we have the same. So those folks are heavily running some smiting against you and your first teammate allready dead? PAYBACK TIME!

Quote:

For 8-18 seconds, foes in that area are stripped of all Enchantments and cannot be the target of further Enchantments.

If you were basically all stacked up BEFORE you're positioning probably is very lousy anyways. That was one of the first things i learned while playing GW PVP. Never ever stand too close to your teammates if you're not defending or running some sort of healing ball (not taking wells and wards into account)

/edit:
A one liner did beat my mighty long post... damnit -.-

RotteN · Aug 28, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

non the less it is quite funny to use from time to time for some relaxed pvp

we played a mesmer team friday and used an axe-warrior (with frozen soil) and an emo smiter for the damage dealing. the mesmers would simply shutdown monks/other mesmers/casters while i (the warrior/smite object) would run around into the biggest pile of enemies and start hacking away at the weakest. it needed very little amount of target calling (mesmers would tell the numbers they were shutting down on TS to prevent overlapping, and i would just do my own stuff) and was realy cool as relaxed gaming

but indeed, there are plenty of counters to regular smiting builds, most have been named already

smurfhunter · Aug 28, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

First, crippling of their warriors won't do much as the E/Mos will just draw conditions off them, while doing damage with zealots, and healing themselves in the process. Second, spot removals recharge slower than Balths (which is 15 seconds), and Balth's gets covered up by other spammables anyway. Between Rend and drain/shatter/inspired you need to pick and choose what enchants get stripped off who, and sometimes you can strip a cover enchant if using a spot removal. Teams with multiple E/Mos fueling multiple W/* with multiple monks to back everyone else up is very hard to stop. You can't stack Balths on a single target, but you can spread the pain on each friendly warrior.

Third, you can regularly get hit with 80-120 damage with a Rend, which hurts quite a bit. Fourth, Lingering Curse costs 25 mana, so good luck getting that off regularly and/or on time. Maybe if you had an N/E using glyph of lesser energy. It gets even harder when their warriors are playing e-denial with Fear Me.

i recently started playing necros alot, and lingering curse is definetly useable, if not spammable. using lingering/weaken armor/rigor/parasitic bond (you really dont have the time to cast all of those so its usually just one buffered by PB), and your warriors can go in and enjoy those unhappy targets. i noticed from playing that build i generally always have enough energy to cast 'one' of the listed skills, which is generally enough mid battle. the fun part is you start off at full energy on the first target, and in my experience a full hex stack by a necro can overpower a full enchant/heal stack by the monks.

so dont dismiss lingering

rend has a sad recharge, ive never gotten more than like 120 from it, and you cant spam it really so it doesnt hurt that much.

rigor, however, is amazing together with warriors. do a rigor/PB and bam those monks start to go into spam heal mode. rend theyre healing seed and its pretty ouchy.

and echo on a n/me really helps out; use it on rigor and even if they do convert you can pop it right back up.

the main deal with necros and not loseing energy is the long casting times. you spen quite a while rending/lingering, which gives you time to regen energy. and putrid costs 0 energy at 10 soul reaping, so that doesnt affect you. overall, necs are fun